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You are here: World of Elanthia » Forum » Game Talk » DR Announcements » Combat 3.0 Overview
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Author Topic: Combat 3.0 Overview  (Read 315 times)
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« on: July 19, 2010, 03:13:35 PM »

  ·  on 7/14/2010 10:28:18 PM    

Heyo!

What follows is a brief overview of Combat 3.0. This post is intended to be a basic summary of the upcoming changes, not a detailed analysis. More detailed posts on specific parts of the rewrite will come later, as each piece is closer to release. Please understand that even though a large portion of these changes is already completed, any and all details are subject to change.

Please post all questions and concerns in the COMBAT folder, under Responses to GM Announcements. Thanks!

---

ACTIVE DEFENSES
(The "To Hit" Phase of Combat)

WHERE WE ARE NOW:
We have three active defenses -- evasion, parry, and shield. Evasion can be considered a first line of defense. Anything that gets past evasion then contests the second line of defense - parry and/or shield - although not in a direct skill contest since it is being compared to what gets past evasion, not the actual attack skill. As a result, evasion (or lack thereof) is the primary driving factor of current defense.

WHERE WE ARE GOING:
Evasion, parry, and shield will combine to form a first line of defense. They will be equal partners, and any 180% stance variation will be equally effective, all other considerations being equal.

Armor skill modified by the appropriate armor protection stats will replace parry and shield as the second line of defense. Armor skill will work in a manner similar to how parry/shield do now -- as a second line of defense if the first line fails, but before a hit or miss is determined and damage computed.

---

DAMAGE AND PASSIVE DEFENSES
(The Damage Phase of Combat)

WHERE WE ARE NOW:
We currently have three "passive" defenses that modify damage once a hit is determined. The first is armor protection modified by armor skill, although this scales very poorly to the damage side of the calculations. The second is armor absorption, which is a straight percentage reduction of damage based on armor stats. The final is what is called "Stamina Reduction", although "Vitality Reduction" might be a better description -- the defender's vitality reduces the final damage to some degree.

Base damage itself is currently based on a combination of random rolls, weapon stats, strength, and suitability to strength. The most important factor, however, is how much of the attacker's skill got through the defenses.

WHERE WE ARE GOING:
As mentioned in the previous section, armor protection is moving to the Active Defense side of combat. Armor absorption will remain essentially unchanged. The importance of "Stamina Reduction" will be increasing dramatically as a damage reducer -- not necessarily to vitality itself, but to the body parts struck. This should go a long ways towards reducing the frequency of one-hit deaths.

Damage will still be made up of the same factors as it is now, but the relative importance will be shifting. Instead of being the primary direct modifier, how much of the attack gets past defenses will instead primarily be determining the variance of the random factors (although it will also directly impact damage as well, but to a much lower degree than now). In other words, the more accurate the attack (the more skill that gets past defense), the closer the damage will be to its maximum potential and the less random the results will be. Strength and suitability to strength will be seeing an increase in importance, as will the weapon stats themselves.

Key points: Determining whether or not an attack hits and the resulting damage will be more independent than they are now. The former will still impact the latter, but they will be less interdependent than they are now. This allows us to keep damage in a range that isn't going to escalate into insta-death at higher levels, and also allows for more flexibility in things that increase the chance to hit or the resulting damage without necessarily impacting both.

---

THE DEATH OF COMBOS

Combos are going away, at least in the form of a specific chain of attacks that is required to maintain perfect balance.

Instead, each of our 35+ combat verbs (yes, we have that many, although some were never completed enough to release) will have distinct benefits and drawbacks. Some will be as simple as just exchanging some defense and/or balance for added accuracy and/or damage (Lunge). Others will be more complex, with special features such as limited area effect (sweep), increased chance to stun (slam), or potential knockdown (slam or shove). Of course, there will always be drawbacks to offset advantages, so attacks should be chosen wisely!

In addition, some attacks will be less (or non) offensive (feint, circle, etc), and instead focus more on modifying the nature of the fight. A new Tactics skill is on the table that will focus primarily on moves that reduce the effectiveness of your enemy or (in a few cases) increase your own.

---

BALANCE

WHERE WE ARE NOW:
Combos.

WHERE WE ARE GOING:
There will be two primary factors in gaining or losing balance -- attack type and attack frequency. Light, controlled attacks (jab) may result in an increase in balance. Massive strikes that involve putting your whole body into the attack my result in a loss of balance. Attacks between these extremes may either lower or increase balance, depending on how much of a hurry the attacker is to move on to the next.

---

LAST ATTACK MODIFIERS

WHERE WE ARE NOW:
All attacks have defensive modifiers -- lunge is the classic example of one that results in massive penalties, while parry or dodge are examples of combat moves that can improve defense. The penalties are based on your most recent combat move, and last until you execute a new one -- as anyone who has lunged and walked away knows all too well.

WHERE WE ARE GOING:
As mentioned in the Combos section, each combat move will have pros and cons. Among these are the same defense modifiers we have now (although the exact numbers may well change). Under the new system, however, all combat move modifiers will be temporary, lasting from anywhere from 3-10 seconds depending on the attack. After that, your "last attack" setting will revert to your most recent defensive move -- ie parry, dodge, or block.

---

STUNS

WHERE WE ARE NOW:
Stuns increase in frequency at higher ranks, and chain stuns are among the Worst Things Ever (tm). Once a defender is stunned, each additional attack is more likely to stun, resulting in chain stuns and often death.

WHERE WE ARE GOING:
Stuns will be less frequent in general, although certain attack types (slam, pummel) will have an increased chance to stun among their pros. In addition, a "new" (old, but invisible) weapon stat (Force of Impact) will be used in conjunction with strength and suitability as the primary determining factor for the chance of stunning. In other words, weapons that are traditionally inaccurate and poor at parrying may very well have a higher chance to stun (although this is highly weapon dependent).

In addition, we will be introducing some immunity timers to stun and similar effects. These timers will be fairly brief, but they will prevent a target from being perpetually locked down by stuns. If a new stun occurs while another is active, the overall duration of the old may be increased to match the new if the new is longer, but otherwise no stacking will occur. Example: A rat is stunned for 5 seconds. With 2 seconds remaining, it is stunned again for 6 seconds. Because 6 seconds is one second longer than the original 5, that 1 second is tacked on to the remaining 2 seconds. So it may be possible to increase stun lengths a bit, but once that stun runs out, a new one cannot occur until the immunity timer expires.

---

COMBAT MESSAGING

New messaging toggles are being added to more finely control combat messaging output. For example, players will be able to toggle missed attacks on and off, not only for themselves but for enemies, for other players, and specifically for groupmates. They will be able to do the same for hits, and for stuns/immobilizes/knockdowns. In other words, it will be possible to set things up so that you only see when your enemies or your groupmates are hit, or only when enemies are hit and groupmates are stunned, or any of several other combinations. This should hopefully make group combat and invasions much more friendly.

---

Again, please post all questions and concerns in the COMBAT folder, under Responses to GM Announcements. Thanks!

- GM Dartenian

Though my soul may set in darkness it will rise in perfect light. I have loved the stars too fondly to be fearful of the night! - Sarah Williams

This message was originally posted in DragonRealms Forum: Combat - Weapons and Armor, Game Master and Official Announcements. To discuss the above follow the link below.

http://www.play.net/forums/messages.asp?forum=20&category=11&topic=1&message=174
 
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Solomon says, "I disagree.  Again, you have no frame of reference.  GemStone has lost more players over time than DR has."

Dragonrealms! Hey at least we didn't lose as many people as Gemstone!


Nuck:  AFK scripting is the gateway crime, it eventually leads to murdering people in real life.
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« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2010, 08:29:26 AM »

  ·  on 7/27/2010 9:43:04 PM    

Heyo!

While nothing is certain at this point (ranged combat will be the last thing I deal with), here's a few notes on plans for ranged weapons that might help answer some of the crossbow concerns.

(1) Experience for ranged weapons will be modified by "preparation" time -- meaning that weapons that take a long time to load will generally produce more xp per shot than those that can be more rapidly fired.

(2) Time spent aiming will also modify experience, with the goal that aimed shots be worth more experience than snap shots. Being able to rapid fire and hit more often (assuming you have the skill to do so) is its own reward.

(3) It is possible (but not certain at this point) that crossbow load times will be reduced. If this does happen, it will likely be something that can be reduced by strength, skill, or a combination of both.

- Dartenian

Though my soul may set in darkness it will rise in perfect light. I have loved the stars too fondly to be fearful of the night! - Sarah Williams


https://www.play.net/forums/messages.asp?forum=20&category=11&topic=25&message=2978
Logged

Solomon says, "I disagree.  Again, you have no frame of reference.  GemStone has lost more players over time than DR has."

Dragonrealms! Hey at least we didn't lose as many people as Gemstone!


Nuck:  AFK scripting is the gateway crime, it eventually leads to murdering people in real life.
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« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2010, 06:04:41 PM »

  ·  on 8/5/2010 1:31:20 PM

Heyo!

I mentioned this briefly before in another post, but there are so many floating around on combat now it's hard to say where!

Tactics will be absorbing some of the brawling maneuvers, the non-damaging ones in particular, but will encompass far more than that. The main focus of the skill will be in improving your own position through minor temporary skill bonuses, as well as weakening your enemy through minor temporary skill decreases. Some of these will be exclusively Tactics, others will be a combination of Tactics and Weapon Skill (ie Feint will have a normal chance to hit and inflict damage via weapon skill, as well as a chance to temporarily penalize the enemy's parry skill via Tactics).

Yes, it will include features like attempting to move to a flanking or rear position if they are currently open (Circle), or at least get the combat modifiers appropriate to those positions temporarily (time for an attack or two) if not. It will also include a few situational modifiers, such as a bonus to evasion against ranged attacks (Weave) or a bonus to evasion against melee attacks (Bob). There will be several other uses, but hopefully this should give folks a better idea of what we are aiming for here -- a combat skill focused primarily on enhancing or penalizing combatants to alter the long-term odds in a battle at the cost of forfeiting immediate damage.

- GM Dartenian

Though my soul may set in darkness it will rise in perfect light. I have loved the stars too fondly to be fearful of the night! - Sarah Williams

https://www.play.net/forums/messages.asp?forum=20&category=11&topic=30&message=1219
Logged

Solomon says, "I disagree.  Again, you have no frame of reference.  GemStone has lost more players over time than DR has."

Dragonrealms! Hey at least we didn't lose as many people as Gemstone!


Nuck:  AFK scripting is the gateway crime, it eventually leads to murdering people in real life.
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« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2010, 03:05:06 PM »

 ·  on 8/12/2010 2:18:44 PM

> It just seems so easy to cast a targeted magic spell or use a thrown weapon if someone is using an evasion/parry stance against you in combat, and then they're screwed. Will this not be the case with Combat 3.0?

In the new system, if a defense is completely invalid against an attack, evasion will be substituted at a modest penalty. Yes, this does apply to DFA attacks vs shields as well.

To be more specific, let's say someone has 100% evasion/80% parry and are up against an archer. The 100% evasion will work exactly like it normally would. The 80% parry will be penalized -- let's assume it's closer to 60% after the penalty -- and then be treated as if it were evasion. It will still use your parry ranks, but it will be treated like evasion in all other respects. The basic idea is that if you know you can't block an attack with parry or shield, you will shift your attention solely to dodging, and as a result will be far more effective at dodging -- although not as effective as you would have been if you were using two or three separate defenses rather than trying to dump all your eggs into one basket.

The same basic principle will hold true if you have one and only one defense stanced to 100% -- ie 100/0/0 in any combination. This will be treated something like 100/60/0, with the 60 being the same skill as the 100. Not as good as two or three defenses, but better than just one in a game designed for 2-3. Note that this particular feature only kicks in if one defense is at least 100% -- this allows people to deliberate stance down to get hit if they want to, while likewise allowing the option of single-defense play if someone wants to go that route, as long as they understand that it's never going to quite stack up to 2-3 defense play.

This is a double-edged sword for ranged users. On one hand, it removes some of the overwhelming advantage presented by being able to bypass parry (ranged) or parry/shield (DFA) completely. On the flip side, it also means archers and similar ranged users will be able to use their weapon at melee with a single defense (evasion) and have a reasonable chance of survival. This leads to my next post in this same folder in response to the insta-retreat thread...

- GM Dartenian

Though my soul may set in darkness it will rise in perfect light. I have loved the stars too fondly to be fearful of the night! - Sarah Williams


https://www.play.net/forums/messages.asp?forum=20&category=11&topic=3&message=17750
Logged

Solomon says, "I disagree.  Again, you have no frame of reference.  GemStone has lost more players over time than DR has."

Dragonrealms! Hey at least we didn't lose as many people as Gemstone!


Nuck:  AFK scripting is the gateway crime, it eventually leads to murdering people in real life.
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« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2010, 03:05:53 PM »

  ·  on 8/12/2010 2:40:29 PM    

Heyo!

If you haven't already, check out my response to Intelligence vs Parry a few posts back in this same folder before reading this one.

With that out of the way...

First let me start with the disclaimer that nothing is set in stone pending testing, but here's the basic plan for dealing with retreating:

(1) FLEE will be the main option for survival. If your goal is to leave the battlefield in a hurry because you might die, you'll probably want to use FLEE, not RETREAT-RETREAT-MOVE. Guild-based penalties for fleeing will be loosened or removed completely to facilitate this

(2) RETREAT will be treated like any other combat maneuver. This means it will cause Fatigue, result in temporary penalties to defenses and potentially accuracy as well, and potentially result in balance loss.

(3) The aforementioned defense penalties will be on a timer. Unlike normal combat maneuvers, if multiple retreats are attempted while already under these penalties, additional penalties can result, not only further penalties to defenses but also penalties to accuracy. This is to reflect the fact that you are too busy trying to outrun someone that is advancing on you and trying to kill you to be actively defending yourself and returning fire.

(4) Retreat will move to a system similar to advance, where it takes time to retreat. The more often you retreat over a given period of time, the slower each subsequent attempt becomes. The actual times will be based on a skill contest between everyone involved, but these will then be modified by just how often the defender has retreating recently. The first few attempts will be very quick (potentially instantaneous on the first attempt or two depending on the skill contests involved), but grow increasingly slow with each additional retreat attempt.

(5) Because I know several people will ignore my suggestion to read the previous post on Intelligence vs Parry first, here's the flip side -- ranged users will be able to defend themselves at melee far better than they can now, so it may very well be in their better interest to just stand their ground once someone gets to them rather than trying to continually retreat. It would (in theory) be even better if they switched to melee at that point (you know, the -logical- thing to do), but we all know that isn't going to happen!

(6) Hangback is being redone as well to make it a little more effective. It will essentially just pulse every few seconds and act as if the individual were trying to retreat, with all the associate penalties described above, but without the current roundtimes and failure attempts. Or to put it more simply, it will just be a substitute for typing retreat over and over and over. It will be set up to attempt the retreat at intervals short enough to be effective, but not so short that the penalties ramp up too fast.

- GM Dartenian

Though my soul may set in darkness it will rise in perfect light. I have loved the stars too fondly to be fearful of the night! - Sarah Williams

https://www.play.net/forums/messages.asp?forum=20&category=11&topic=3&message=17751
Logged

Solomon says, "I disagree.  Again, you have no frame of reference.  GemStone has lost more players over time than DR has."

Dragonrealms! Hey at least we didn't lose as many people as Gemstone!


Nuck:  AFK scripting is the gateway crime, it eventually leads to murdering people in real life.
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